Your transcript

[00:00:00] Gillian: We all know that success takes dedication, but does it really need to come with burnout and constant sacrifice? Well, that's exactly what we're exploring today with my guest, Jess Spendlove. Now, Jess isn't just an expert in high performance and well-being. What truly makes her special, is how she helps people reach their goals without burning out.[00:00:21] Now, she's worked with top athletes in the AFL, NRL, super netball. And now she's bringing that expertise to corporate leaders, entrepreneurs, and anyone striving for greatness in both their work and personal life. As you know, I'm passionate about helping women elevate their careers and Jess is all about well-being. Two things that go hand in hand. You can't thrive at work without taking care of yourself. And I love that Jess and I both focus on helping women reach their full potential. Now, Jess and I met through a mastermind group, and we hit it off right away. Like she's got an incredible energy and her passion for what she does is contagious. You'll see that soon. I'm so thrilled to have her on the podcast today to share her wisdom, with you. So let's dive in.
[00:01:13] Well, Jess, welcome to the podcast. It is so good to have you here.
[00:02:04] Jess: Gil, thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to today's conversation.
[00:02:09] Gillian: Yeah, well me too, Jess, because I love all the things that you are passionate about. And I know our listeners will too. I think it's quite a juicy subject really, that I think it's a topic that a lot of people will relate to and I remember hearing you say, that 48 percent of women are concerned about their mental health and I found it quite staggering. from your perspective, what's really driving this increase in stress and burnout among women? And what can we start doing in practical terms to, to regain control about well-being?
[00:02:45] Jess: It's such an important conversation to have because those stats are relevant. They're up to date. It's 2024. And what we're seeing is stress in the workplace is increasing across the board, but particularly in women and burnout rates are increasing. Men they’re slightly decreasing, but women, even with this awareness, even with having more conversations, it's apparent what we're doing or the way we're working is not working because these rates are getting worse.
[00:03:15] And I think there's a lot going on and I think just because we're aware there's an issue doesn't mean awareness necessarily drives change. And on top of that, women, we have so many hats. We take so many roles and we are not in all instances, but often particularly for our female leaders, they can be leading the workplace. They can be leading the team. They're often the main caregiver and the leader in the family. And it's just, we've only got so many hours, so much bandwidth. And I think because we have so many competing priorities, not intentionally, but what we need to do for ourselves drops down the list of priorities.
[00:04:01] And it's not an intentional thing. If anything, it's born out of the fact that we care and we're giving so much to everybody else. But I guess it is that cliched saying, you know, we need to put our oxygen mask on first. But, often the way that's communicated to us is a list of really long, complex protocols, and it all just seems very overwhelming.
[00:04:24] So for me, what I like to talk about is how do we make changes to what we're already doing? And it's really looking at the power of micro habits. Not adding. I don't want to add more things on your list. If anything, I actually want to find a way to take them off. So for example, we all already eat every single day and we all already sleep every single night. So how can we just improve those slightly, not adding more, but just optimising, which that then starts to give us more energy, starts to give us more confidence, and then it starts to feed into every other area of our lives as well.
[00:05:05] Gillian: I love that thinking, Jess, because you know, sometimes people will give you this long list of what a good morning routine looks like, or what your evening routine looks like. And you kind of need a cup of tea and a lie down by the time you finish reading the list, envisaging how on earth you could ever pull that off.
[00:05:21] I mean, you do have to get pragmatic about it and I think you're very good at giving us perspective on all of that. But Jess, you had your own experience with burnout and I imagine that was a big catalyst for doing what you do today. What's the biggest change that you have made to your well-being approach that has made the biggest impact on your energy?
[00:05:43] Jess: Yeah, you're exactly right. This phase of my career is really born out of the fact that I don't want people to make the same mistakes that I made. And there I was as this performance expert and well-being expert, helping hundreds of elite athletes and growing a business and thinking I was invincible. But at the end of the day, I was crashing and burning.
[00:06:06] And as a human being, I was pretty empty. So for me, the two biggest things have been one, establishing boundaries and realising what I need to do for myself. And the second has been also recovery, which, you know, I feel like a little bit of a hypocrite, I was very much talking the talk. I've always talked about the importance of recovery, but I wasn't walking the walk.
[00:06:34] I was taking the burnout vacation because I needed to rather than proactively looking at the micro-opportunities each and every single day, which we now know actually have the biggest impact on minimising the risk of burnout. So, when I talk about boundaries for me, that was making myself available, honestly, 24/7.
[00:07:01] Whatever you need, whenever you need it, thinking that was going to make me better at my job. But the reality is, I'm not a brain surgeon. No one needs me that urgently. It can be something that waits for tomorrow. So just, putting some boundaries in place to when I access technology, you know, I have actually removed emails from my phone because that was just a habit I couldn't break.
[00:07:28] So now I only intentionally look at them on desktop. With the clients that I work with now, it's very clear the days and the hours that I'm available and particularly what I was doing, it was this frustration around what I had allowed, but as soon as you just make that shift and you set the expectations in a really clear but kind way, people respond to them.
[00:07:51] And then when it comes to the recovery piece, it was very much looking at it proactively. What can I do each day that fits within my day? Little small micro opportunities, couple of minutes, very intentional brain breaks are what I call them. How can I implement them in my day to top me up. So, it's not getting to the point that I'm only taking rest because I'm either breaking down or burning out.
[00:08:17] Gillian: You can go through such a chunk of your career with this pleasing mentality. This, I'm just going to demonstrate this “can do” mentality and say yes to things and get stuff done and be constantly available.
[00:08:30] And it does enable you to progress to a certain point, but it's not enduring. And it's such a mindset shift if you've been embedded in that behaviour for a series of years. So I totally, I totally get that. And I love your thinking around micro habits.
[00:08:46] I mean, James Clear talks about the 1% and the cumulative effect of 1%, which I think is very digestible because your clients are very much high performing people. And our listeners are very high performing in their jobs and have high expectations. And sometimes with that, you can tell me if you agree with this, Jess, they can think in extremes. But micro habits, it just makes it so much more digestible. Doesn't it?
[00:09:11] Jess: You're exactly right. Often with these types of personalities, there's two things that stand out for me there. One, I call it the all or nothing mindset, and it's that ability to commit to everything because the willpower and the dedication is so strong and they're so motivated and I can just, you know, stick to the rigid regime or the, whatever I've set my mind on, which has probably to an extent served them in certain areas such as their career.
[00:09:41] But when it comes to your well-being and your performance, which is 24 hour seven day a week job. We can't take this 100 percent perfectionistic mindset or commitment, nor do we need to. So I often find with a lot of my clients, which kind of span across business, executives, entrepreneurs, and I still work with some elite athletes, But often I'm now the voice of reason. I'm the one trying to peel back the layers and let them and have them be a little bit more flexible and kinder to themselves. And the way I like to talk about that is non negotiables and guardrails. And what I often see is a lot of high performing executives or corporates, they think of their ideal day. And I think this is the narrative we've been sold. Get up at five am. Have that morning routine like you were talking about. Have your ideal day and aim for that. And I do really believe we need to know what our north star is and how we like to operate, but we can't expect every single day to flow like that.
[00:10:50] And so I nearly think there's this, positioning of, I have to aim for gold standard every single day is the mindset, which then actually sets them up for failure or feeling like they're not achieving that. So having this idea of what are my two or three non-negotiables or anchor points, things that help me feel my absolute best, and they're going to be different for every single person. But what are they that I can achieve every single day?
[00:11:19] And then if I have a week or a day or a season where I've got a little bit more space, well I can aim for that gold standard. But we don't want to have that as the north star every single day, because you're exactly right. They are high performing. They are motivated. They are dedicated.
[00:11:35] And that can often be setting themselves up for burnout or breakdown or just feeling probably like I felt I was professionally really thriving, all the accolades, you know, my ego, I'm sure, was loving it. But as a human being, I was very empty. So there's that side of things as well when it comes to that mental well-being piece, it's really about balancing that career, the personal life, relationships and also your emotional state.
[00:12:08] Gillian: Very much so. And I love that all or nothing process. And I think I've been guilty of it many times myself before, Jess. And I think of scenarios like, it's going to be a healthy week. And then for whatever reason, you're in the city and you might have raisin toast laden with butter.
[00:12:26] So now the plan has not gone to plan and that all or nothing thinking can really lead you if you don't manage yourself. Oh, today's a disaster. I think this idea of the micro habits can, be a lot more nurturing in terms of making progress versus success has to look like that north star completely.
[00:12:46] Jess: You're exactly right. It's like this idea of one meal or one skipped workout or one poor sleep is just unravelling everything that I'm working towards. Where we need to take this more global, zoomed out, macro approach and think about, okay, well, that's happened, and it's easier said than done. kind of zoom out of your own day to day thinking, and even a lot of it is, you know, zooming out of the stories and the narratives that are running around in our mind.
[00:13:18] And some of that can come with, you know, mindfulness practices and getting more in our body and even just getting to the point of kind of being frustrated or fed up with the way that you're, you're speaking to yourself. Sometimes we're always our harshest critic and I think that just gets to a point where you just go, I want to be kinder to myself. And when you find a way to be a little bit more flexible, move on from the over buttered raisin toast, and then just get back to that next meal and have your, you know, protein rich salad or meal or leftovers or whatever it might be, or, you know, if you've had a corporate lunch or dinner and you've had a few more drinks than you wanted to, it's all good.
[00:14:06] We just need to get back into what works the next day. Just in that moment, make peace and get back to your non negotiables and your north star.
[00:14:14] And you will be so surprised at how much more a) peaceful that is, but b) how non impactful that meal or that snack or that whatever it is, it's just a blimp on the radar, it doesn't even scratch the surface.
[00:14:31] Gillian: Something I'm, I'm really interested in talking to you about today is tracking habits and using data. And there's lots of gadgets out there now. I have an Apple Watch. That's the only gadget I have, which I love. That's really good for the steps and a few things. But for someone just starting out, what are your thoughts around this, Jess?
[00:15:22] Jess: The first thing I should say is I really believe in two types of, I guess I call metrics or data. And one is subjective, which is really learning the language of your body and brain and tuning into things like your energy, your appetite and your performance. Again, this was a language I didn't know.
[00:15:42] I had to learn over time and it's this foreign language. None of us are really taught, but when we tune into our energy and how that tracks across the days and weeks, which also includes that kind of crash and burn in the afternoon. When we tune into our appetite, which can be how hungry do we get, or how ravenous do we get leading into meals?
[00:16:04] Or our cravings. Do we have cravings at a particular time of day? And then when it comes to performance, uh, there's kind of two aspects, physical and cognitive. So I know, I know that you work out and you run and everything in the morning. So the physical side of that is how am I feeling in my, in my workouts and how is my energy in that moment. But then the cognitive side of things which matters to everyone listening is what is my focus? What is my productivity? What is my ability to do deep work? And if we tune into some of these metrics, particularly in reference to when we start to change behaviours and especially energy, that will be your little green flag if you are on the right track or not.
[00:16:49] So if you change something and you have more energy, either across the day or across the week or that crash and burn in the afternoon is a lot less. Take that as the best sign that what you have changed is really supportive for you. And then the second, I guess, part to that, which, is kind of the Apple watch or things like people might've heard of the aura ring, which I have one of those or the WootBand or a FitBit is objective data, and this is something which you can wear, and you can track certain aspects of your recovery and your well-being. So, it depends on which one you have, but typically they'll look at things like resting heart rate and sleep, like the different phases.
[00:17:34] So that can help put some more tangible metrics on some of those feelings. Because unless you're really being guided or you've got the space or, yeah, you've maybe got that kind of support person. They're helping you kind of navigate that and put the pieces together.
[00:17:50] I understand that that maybe can be a little bit challenging when you've got so many other balls in the air. Whereas if you then have that aura ring or that Apple watch or that Fitbit, which is something that you can track how your recovery is going, how your resting heart rate's going, what's happening with your sleep, that can help against be supportive of, well, is this thing I've changed helping me or, am I flashing up and showing that I'm poorly recovered and I'm a little bit more stressed out and is there an opportunity to add something in that's going to help with that?
[00:18:24] Gillian: Do you recommend writing it down, Jess? Do you have to be systematic? Or can you just use your own observations and looking at that you do have available.
[00:18:34] Jess: There's definitely an element of knowing yourself, but the majority of clients I work with, it's more a reflection piece. So it might be as they're driving home from work in the day, or if they journal at night, it might be a reflection piece. I mean, you can definitely print out the habit tracker and track if you need to do that or use the apps, but honestly, the majority of clients, it’s probably another thing.
[00:18:59] Whereas if there's just that opportunity to have that reflection, whether you're on a walk, driving home, journalling at night, whatever works for you, then that is more than sufficient.
[00:19:11] Gillian: Great. Great. Let's talk about consistency. Is there merit in ensuring that we have breakfast around the same time every day? Like, how important is consistency, when we're talking about high performance?
[00:19:25] Jess: Consistency is very important. It really, drives the kind of acceleration or the momentum of results. And I really liked the fact that you've called out breakfast because that is probably one of the biggest areas that I see a lack of consistency and the way I like to think about the morning is your springboard for the day.
[00:19:49] Now, this doesn't have to be five step, 10 step protocols or anything like that. Again, it's what works for you, your family, when you like to wake up. There’s something called your sleep chronotype, which means are you a morning person or you're more of a night owl? Like it all needs to consider that.
[00:20:06] But if you eat breakfast, which I strongly encourage female executives and corporates to do, no fasting. I strongly recommend that you find a time and a location that's going to work for you. Now, one example, a recent client, managing director, she had kind of three or four different mornings across the week.
[00:20:28] She would sometimes eat breakfast at home, sometimes at the office, sometimes she would skip or just have the scraps off her children's plate. And then looking at her day, she would often then have this energy crash and burn or cravings, sweet foods on the day she either skipped or it was inconsistent.
[00:20:47] So simply by identifying that, finding a way for her to stabilise that start of the day. Then have this positive, proactive flow on in every other area. So I encourage those listening who don't have a consistent morning, particularly when it comes to maybe what they eat in the time, to just even think about a way that they could do that, because that is just allowing your body, your energy, your focus, your appetite, your blood sugar levels, all of these factors which really contribute to how you feel across the day.
[00:21:26] It allows that to start from the same starting point. And that within itself is a really great example of how you can start to create a little bit of consistency for yourself, which you'll just be rewarded in, in so many ways.
[00:21:39] Gillian: Jess, I nearly fell off the weights machine this morning when I was listening to you on your podcast, which is great, and you said you shouldn't have a coffee first thing in the morning. You're best to have electrolytes. At that point, it was 6.30. I'd been in the gym for an hour, and I've had two cups of coffee. And, I found it really interesting because I love that, normally I just have one desk, I was just up really early this morning. But I love my morning coffee, but your point was it doesn't set the body up for success. It's creating this adrenaline and we're best to wait for 90 minutes, have the electrolytes instead and that is a really good, consistent routine that we can apply as well.
[00:22:21] Jess: Look, I love my morning coffee as well. I'm definitely a pro caffeine person. So I think that always helps when It's someone making these recommendations, and they, they are a fellow coffee lover. But yeah, the, the idea with this, and this is again, I encourage you to kind of view some of these, these strategies as little experiments you can run on yourself.
[00:22:44] The thinking and the research here is that if you can delay that coffee by 60 to 90 minutes, So we don't have to get to the 90. What that does is it's more supportive of our natural circadian rhythm and also our cortisol levels, which if we're in a good state that should be elevated in the morning and declining in the afternoon and evening with our cortisol, when we're stressed or feeling wired and tired, then that rhythm can be a little bit out.
[00:23:11] But delaying that, that caffeine intake support both of those two things. Look, if you go to the gym, then this is kind of my sports dietician background. There is a performance benefit to drinking coffee in the morning. So potentially, a sweet spot there for someone like yourself might be having that electrolytes to start to be that very first thing that you consume, because that is helping rehydrate some of the fluids that we've lost overnight.
[00:23:40] Most of us wake up mildly to more than mildly dehydrated and by adding the electrolytes, what that does is it actually helps us retain more of the fluid that we consume. I can work with a lot of female corporate clients and they're like on paper, I'm active, I eat well. Why do I not feel better than how I feel? And it can be these little pieces to the puzzle that we've been speaking about. Like in some instances, they're eating really well, and they actually need to consume a little bit more electrolytes in the form of sodium in their drinks.
[00:24:18] So they're retaining more fluid and they're not becoming dehydrated. Or it could be those other little things that I mentioned around that, that initial springboard for the day is just not consistent for them. So yeah, my fellow coffee lovers in the morning, if you can't delay it, maybe try pairing it at least with some electrolytes. And I would love to know, how that feeds into the rest of your day
[00:24:43] Gillian: I'm going to give it a go. I'm going to give it a go. I started drinking coffee, many years ago because a personal trainer said, if you have a short black Gil before going for your run, it will, enhance your performance. And I was like, that's the best news I've ever heard.
[00:24:57] And there was no turning back. but like right now I'm actually injured, and I can't run and I just go to the gym. I don't really need the coffee. It's just a habit.
[00:25:07] Jess: Again, coming back to this. Let's not add something new or break something. Let's swap it or let's tweak it. So we're not necessarily stopping the habit. We're just going to replace it with something in the short term. So, yeah, I'd love to hear how it goes.
[00:25:21] Gillian: Just a couple of really quick final questions. What's, one mindset shift or just practical habit that you think would have the most powerful impact on people's well-being and success? And I'm talking about our women in corporate leading these very busy lives.
[00:25:36] If you had to extract. One thing out of your very big repertoire, Jess, what would be at the top of your list?
[00:25:45] Jess: Yeah, that's a really great question. I think, It's not the gold standard day. It's honestly the two to three things in the week that really help set your day and your week up. And one is that breakfast piece that's stabilising that consistent starting point of your day, and the second piece to that might be, well, to be able to do that, I have to do my shop on the weekend. you know, and then the third piece is even just schedule your personal KPIs in your diary. So don't rely on you just knowing that you need to do the things. Schedule what's important to you? Is that your meals? Is that the brain breaks? Is that when you go to your exercise classes. Actually physically put it in your diary to the same level and commitment that you do your family commitments in your meetings. So it's physically there. So when you're in the middle of your work or the meeting, it at least pops up as a circuit breaker and it's a reminder.
[00:26:43] So they're probably my, my mindset shifts or practical tips that I would love to leave the listeners with.
[00:26:51] Gillian: Amazing, Jess. Thank you so much. That's so generous, so kind. We have to ask you a very important question. Where do people find you, Jess?
[00:26:58] Jess: I'm very active on both LinkedIn and Instagram. So LinkedIn is probably a really good place. So Jessica Spendlove, otherwise jessicaspendlove.com and, that's my website and it will have all of the links to the socials, and very importantly, which we briefly mentioned, it will also have, details of my podcast, which is called Stay At The Top, which really is, everything that I'm about today.
[00:27:23] It's not necessarily about helping people get to the top because your listeners, the clients I work with, they're generally there or very close to it. But how do we have the conversation and change the narrative and find strategies that are actually going to help keep us there? And that's really what I call sustainable high performance, which is what I love to talk about.
[00:27:46] Gillian: We will put all the links in the show notes and it's a great podcast. It's fantastic. Yes. So, and you also do executive coaching, and you run some programs and you're a keynote speaker. So, and I'm sure people can find all of that on your sites as well. So Jess, thank you very much. I feel like you've given us such a balance perspective because well-being can go in all kinds of directions. But I feel like the tips you've given us today are very practical, very accessible, very relevant. and I know our listeners will really appreciate that. So thank you.
[00:28:19] Jess: Thank you for having me, Gil. It’s been great.